Tyskland foretrækker F-35

Tyskland kigger på flere forskellige fly i jagten på en afløser for sine aldrende Tornado-fly. Men tyskernes foretrukne valg er F-35. Det har en tysk seniorembedsmand sagt ved et lukket arrangement onsdag, skriver Janes.

Arrangementet var omfattet af de såkaldte "Chatham House Rules", som betyder, at man ikke må sætte navn på specifikke citater. Det gør de heller ikke, men citerer den anonyme embedsmand direkte:

“The Tornado replacement needs to be fifth-generation aircraft that can be detected as late as possible, if at all. It must be able to identify targets from a long way off and to target them as soon as possible," siger embedsmanden om de tyske krav, som stort set kun F-35 kan leve op til i Vesten.

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  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    For år tilbage troede jeg næppe det kunne blive en realitet - men sker det vil det være det sidste søm i kisten til Eurofighterprojektet på den lange bane.

    Og et tysk køb at 50 stk. vil svarer ca. til det antal F-35 fly Holland skar væk (85 til 37).

  • Anmeld

    GD

    Mere om sagen.

    Germany Requests Pricing and Availability for the F-35
    by Chris Pocock
    - November 8, 2017, 10:39 AM

    Germany has sent a Letter of Request for Pricing and Availability for the F-35 to the U.S. government. Lockheed Martin officials told AIN that they would assist in the U.S. response, which they expected would be made at the classified level. Lockheed Martin brought its unclassified F-35 cockpit demonstrator to Berlin this week for The International Fighter Conference, organized by Defence IQ.

    Speaking at the same conference, the chief of staff of the German Air Force (GAF) Lt. Gen. Karl Muellner said that the service is seeking a replacement for its Tornado strike fleet. With those jets due to be phased out in 2030, a successor would have to enter service from 2025. “We are considering several candidates, with the capability of the F-35 as the benchmark.”

    Muellner did not specify the other candidates, but AIN has learned from other sources that the GAF has been considering the Boeing F-15 Strike Eagle, the F/A-18 Super Hornet, and even a so-called Tranche 4 version of the Eurofighter. However, according to the requirements for the new fighter that Muellner listed in his conference presentation, the F-35 seems to be the key contender. The Luftwaffe chief said the new acquisition “must be survivable in a contested environment through low-observability by radar and infrared signature; have low emissions; offer stand-off capability with its sensors and weapons; and be capable of sensor fusion.

    The mission set would include offensive counter-air; air interdiction; close air support; suppression of enemy air defenses; tactical reconnaissance; electronic combat; and nuclear deterrence, Muellner added. AIN believes that the last mission is a reference to the U.S. B61 nuclear free-fall bomb, which can be carried by the Tornado under NATO nuclear-release deterrence doctrine. An updated version of the B61 is due to be integrated on the F-35.

    “If we bought the F-35,” Muellner continued, “it would fulfill our requirement, strengthen interoperability because other NATO members are acquiring it and make a contribution to balancing our trade surplus with the U.S.”

    Muellner was asked whether the GAF’s plan was contrary to last year’s announcement by the leaders of France and Germany that they would jointly develop a new combat aircraft. He said that this would be a longer-term project, to replace the Eurofighter from 2045 with a “Fifth Generation-Plus” solution. This aircraft would offer much greater automation, make use of artificial intelligence and offer cyber capabilities. “We must certainly keep the industrial knowledge and the jobs in Europe,” he added.

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-11-08/germany-requests-pricing-and-availability-f-35

  • Anmeld

    Jesper Poulsen

    Mærkeligt at land efter land køber eller viser interesse for det fly som så mange herinde har sagt er et dårligt køb. Svenske Grippen er meget bedre hævdede disse selvudnævnte eksperter, selvom det i en lægmands ører lyder ekstremt mærkeligt ikke at købe våben fra en "brother in arms" f.eks. Om så prisen er 10 gange højere.
    Men som man følger med udviklingen med salg af F-35 bliver det mere og mere tydeligt at selvudnævnte eksperter ikke altid er rigtige eksperter

  • Anmeld

    GD

    Så har durability testing på A-modellen nået 24000 timer.

    F-35A Lightning II Airframe Completes Durability Testing in BAE Systems facility



    A full scale durability test airframe of the F-35A aircraft has successfully completed its third life testing, equivalent to 24,000 hours of ’flying’, in BAE Systems’ site in Brough, United Kingdom.

    The F-35A durability test airframe will now leave the rig and travel to the United States where it will undergo further detailed inspections.

    The airframe, known as AJ-1, is representative of the F-35A Conventional Take-Off and Landing (CTOL) variant of the jet.

    While in the 350-tonnes structural test rig it has been subjected to and tested on the range of loads it would experience in actual flight, with durability tests carried out to simulate real life fleet usage based on projected operational requirements.

    The durability test rig has supported the testing of AJ-1 since it arrived in Brough in 2009. It is fitted with more than 20 miles of wiring, 2,500 strain gauges and 160 loading actuators which are attached to the airframe during testing.

    Kathy Nesmith, F-35 Joint Program Office Airframe Team Lead, said: “The F-35 programme requires a service life of 8,000 flight hours. This is verified through durability testing to two lifetimes or 16,000 hours. Completing third life testing on the F-35A durability article will provide us the data to enable the warfighter to maintain and sustain this aircraft beyond 2050.”

    Andy Prendergast, Operations Manager for Structural and Dynamic Test at BAE Systems, said: "This testing has pushed the F-35A airframe to its limits to make sure it will fly safely and effectively throughout its lifetime.

    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/21207/F_35A_Lightning_II_Airframe_Completes_Durability_Testing_in_BAE_Systems_facility#.WgSDSaIXcwM

  • Anmeld

    KimE

    "Jesper Poulsen" "Svenske Grippen er meget bedre hævdede disse selvudnævnte eksperter"
    "An updated version of the B61 is due to be integrated on the F-35."

    Gripen kan knappast vara lämplig som ett utpräglat attackplan med krav på atombombsfällning. De enda alternativen är f35 och fa18e/f.

  • Anmeld

    Jørgen Nielsen

    Mon ikke tyskerne vil kombinere F35 med en dedikeret jager? I så fald, hvad gør de mon så? Kan Eurofighter levetidsforlænges? Eller mon de afventer udviklingen på 6.generations jagere?

  • Anmeld

    KimE

    Jag tror att de antagligen väntar på FCAS (Airbus-Dassault)om inte något fler land vill vara med på en stor uppgradering av Eurofighter som tranch4.

  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    Tyskland har dog bedt om tilbud/oplæg på EF, F-18SH og F-15

    "The German air force last month issued a formal request for information about the F-35, as well as three other jets: the F-15 and F/A-18E/F, both built by Boeing Co (BA.N), and the European Eurofighter Typhoon."

  • Anmeld

    Henrik

    @Andreas
    Jeg syntes der skal være lidt ligevægt i denne debat.
    Frankrig og Tyskland har stadigt planer om en stealth striker
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-germany-defence/airbus-dassault-vie-for-leadership-of-franco-german-fighter-idUSKBN1D31W0

  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    men nu ser det ud til det tyske forsvarsministerium ønsker en videreudvikling af Eurofigther

    http://augengeradeaus.net/2017/12/ministerium-favorisiert-eurofighter-weiterentwicklung-ueber-f-35/

    Mon ikke Airbus/EF konsortiet ikke lige har været forbi deres skrivebord med en rapport om Eurofighterens fremtidsudsigter, såfremt Tyskland vælger F-35

  • Anmeld

    GD

    Hvis de skal bygges i Tyskland skal de nok bestilles snart, for at undgå fordyrende stop-go produktion. Underleverandørerne lever på ordrerne til Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, reservedele til eksisterende flåde, nogle år endnu.

    Prisen for drift skal ned. Kig på TyTAN

    https://www.raf.mod.uk/rafconingsby/newsweather/index.cfm?storyid=51B77795-5056-A318-A85F80E413A35300

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-drive-down-typhoon-operating-costs-to-match-f-439514/

    Og så skal der opgraderes massivt - kan det nås inden for få år?

  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    Om det er fake news ved jeg ikke - for selvfølgelig var det sputnik news der først kom med nyheden (som jeg vælger ikke at linke)

    Men nu er der andre der henviser til historien om, et evt. F-35 indkøb i Tyskland er kommet i alvorlig modvind.

    Nu er de tunge Airbusdrenge nok gået i gang med at "forklare" konsekvenserne af ikke at købe flere EF fly.

    https://www.defencetalk.com/f-35-out-as-germany-weighs-tornado-replacement-options-71409/

  • Anmeld

    GD

    Italiensk industri og fagforeninger ville også skære i F-35 indkøbet til fordel for flere EF fly. De er jo gode til at skabe arbejdspladser. Det fik de dog ikke noget ud af.

    Hvad er prislappen på ~60 stk. Tranche 4 EF?

  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    @GD

    Det er der vist ingen der ved - endnu

    Mit bud er F-35 FYC prisen + 40-50% oveni - mindst.

  • Anmeld

    E. Petersen

    Et god artikel omkring Tyskland´s dilemma ved valg af F-35

    https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2018/02/19/the_f-35_for_germany_113076.html

    Og ligesom Boeing føler deres navn blev misbrugt i den danske konkurrence fordi, det faldt ud til F-35´s fordel på alle punkter, må Airbus føle det samme med denne artikel, hvor man specifikt henviser til den danske konkurrence.